By THIRSTY
Du Yun won the 2017 Pulitzer Prize for Music for
her opera, Angel’s Bone. Born
and raised in Shanghai, China, she is a composer, instrumentalist, performance
artist and curator working at the leading edge of innovation in music, the
visual arts and electronics and noise. In addition, she is on the faculty of
the Peabody Institute of Johns Hopkins University where she teaches music
composition. Stay Thirsty Magazine was
honored to visit with her for this special Conversation.
STAY THIRSTY: Is composing a solitary endeavor for you or do you
gain energy from being around and engaged with other people?
DU YUN: I think both. I think composing itself is a very solitary endeavor.
But I often collaborate with people, and it’s not just engaging with or getting
energy, it’s really having ideas and being inspired by people. Also I gain a
lot of awareness in society. I would say it’s very much a social endeavor. The composing
– the act itself, when you write down the music – is a solitary act.
STAY THIRSTY: Do you hear the stories of your compositions in your
mind in English or in Chinese? How does your heritage influence your views on
the social issues that underpin your works?
DU YUN: I think both. In my mind, I don’t discern whether it’s in
English or in Chinese. I remember when I first came here, in my early years, I realized
that this word was in English or this word was in Chinese, but I no longer have
those differences anymore. The heritage plays a huge influence on me, and I
think it’s also changed as I grow older. Sometimes you get away from it and
sometimes you get closer to it. For instance, I am doing a new initiative to
engage regional opera troupes in China to examine how those disappearing dialects
affect the narrative story and how that affects the musical structure. Because
in China there are so many opera styles, there are said to be more than 300.
Other than a few main ones, the regional ones are not at the center of people’s
attention, even in China. I wanted to put them back into focus. They urgently
need new stories and urgently need a new way of presentation. The ancient stories
and emotions were always valid but the way of how you tell those stories has to
be rethought, and the presentation of it has to be reworked. That is why, even in
Western operas and in film and in TV, everyone is telling stories again and
again. So that’s why there is some bridge work that needs to be done.
STAY THIRSTY: Why are you so motivated by injustices to women and to
children? Do you believe that your compositions and your performance work are
raising awareness about issues like human trafficking and gender equality? What
changes in these areas are you advocating?
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| Du Yun |
DU YUN: Well, because I am a woman myself, so it’s hard to not advocate
for that. Not only am I a woman, I’m also non-white. The reason I say non-white,
instead of saying minority, is that I don’t think I am a minority. Just as I
don’t think women are a minority. Women are 50/50. If you were in China, I mean,
there are a lot of Asian people. I just think the discourse is about authority.
I don’t buy into that saying, and I think it’s because I wasn’t born and raised
here that gives me the confidence in saying that. Around the corner of the
world, we all talk a lot about diversities. The groups of people who are not in
the mainstream, not just about women, not just about white or non-white. When
you look at the country of Myanmar, Rohingyas are not having a lot of say. When
you look at Israel, the Palestinians aren’t having any authority or say in
anything. Those are the territories that I want to have a voice in. I believe
that diversity means that everyone should have a voice in expressing and a
voice to speak out. No, I don’t think about my composition or my works as being
about issues of human trafficking and politics. I sometimes don’t think I’ve
done enough work. I think that it’s naïve to think that art will really solve
the problem of human trafficking. I think that I can hope to raise that
awareness. I don’t think I’m solving a problem. What can I do to help gender
equality? It’s a lot about role models and mentorship because sometimes when
people see that people like me can do stuff then it becomes more feasible for people
just like me or people not like me but who aspire to be different.
STAY THIRSTY: Pushing yourself beyond your comfort zone and focusing
on the next step is something that you have discussed publicly. What fuels the
fire in you to achieve?
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| Du Yun |
DU YUN: I always try to think critically. I think that sometimes when
you are so familiar with yourself and with the field in which you’re working, you’re
becoming a commodity of yourself. And you, perhaps, are thinking less or you’re
evaluating your motivation less, and that I don’t feel comfortable doing.
STAY THIRSTY: Your work has been performed from Carnegie Hall to the
Guangzhou Opera House, from the Salle Pleyel Paris to the Escola de Música do
Estado in São Paulo. How does having such a global impact affect your thinking
about future projects?
DU YUN: I travel quite a bit, and those performances are only just
the end product of a project. When I think about a project, I start with – not
just New York, not just in the United States, not just in China – it’s really
moving about. Also when I go around, I interact with people. I interact with
what people are thinking and saying. I read about their literature, I read
about their events. I learn about their art themes, film themes. I always make
sure that I pick up the local magazines. Sometimes they have the translated
ones. Even if it’s in a foreign language, I also scan through them to see what
are they talking about. I think those are quite important. Even if it’s in a
language that I don’t know, when I stay in hotels, I always make sure I have
the TV on all the time and I flip through. I’m one of those people who absolutely
believes in TV. You know, people say they don’t like TV. I never understood why
people don’t. (Of course I understand.) When I travel, the TV is always on.
That is a perfect time for me to find out what people are interested in
watching. Voice of America has so many versions around the world, and it’s so
crazy to see. When you’re in India they have all these amazing contests and the
classic Bollywood, not the ones that we’re seeing on our films, the classics
are very black and white, very beautiful, so I wouldn’t know those things had I
not watched the TV. Those give me a lot of inspiration and makes me understand
what people globally are interested in knowing, in hearing, in talking, and in discussing,
When you read The New York Times, when
you read The Washington Post, the homepage is still very much American centered,
and then you have a global section. But then when you travel around all sections
are all varied up from region to region. I find the stories that people are
talking about are very interesting.
STAY THIRSTY: How has a classical education helped or hindered you
in creating such original work? Do you have a favorite format or style that you
prefer to work in?
DU YUN: I think classical education helps me in writing, in
composing, in putting down the notes. I don’t have a favorite style for me to
work in. Quite often I pin down the narrative first and then I work hard thinking
about what makes sense, where, what style makes sense in what thread. If it
were a different project, it would be the same as well. If I were doing a
performance art work, I would certainly not do a style, it would be more fluid.
STAY THIRSTY: Can you teach someone to be a composer or is it a
natural gift that can only be polished like a diamond?
DU YUN: You know, there’s a saying that talent cannot be taught. I
think it’s a misunderstanding. I think composition can actually be taught. When
I grew up I did hear about that. I think it’s very misogynist. I really think
so. For a long time, I thought that, too, but people have this thing that talent
cannot be taught. And then what do you have? You really disagree with people
who you think might not have the talent as you do and then just block them out
because you say that talent cannot be taught. There are so many people working
hard. One of the initiatives that I’m trying to do is working with young people
from South Africa, very young musicians. I go there, teach them, lead them, and
inspire them how to have their own voice. Because composition does not just
mean putting the notes onto the paper. I think it’s our misunderstanding that
this is the only way to compose. Composing is about how to have a musical
thought and that absolutely can be taught. I think that, for instance, if you
only think that composition is about harmony, counterpoint, and Western
instruments, then, sure, there will be people who are not good at harmony. They’re
like, “I just don’t hear music that way.” If you think music doesn’t mean just
that, then, I think that everyone can use music. I think everyone can be taught
as a composer. I actually like that phrase, to say that something cannot be taught
is saying that it cannot be thought. I was in this debate with someone talking about
diversity and they were saying choosing quality over labels. The problem is
sometimes when people say those things, their ideas of quality is very much
monogamous. Because we don’t understand. We are not really investigating. When
we talk about the quality of music, what do we really mean? Those are the
things we need to examine ourselves. And then later it’s just how much time
that person is willing to put into this. Do you really want to put in all this
time to write a certain way or produce a certain way? Then it’s how much time you’re
willing to do. But I do think that music can be taught and talent can be led
and can be inspired. When I was younger, there were some teachers that told me
I did not have talent. It took that one particular teacher to say to me that they
are all bullshit maybe that student does have a talent. So the moral of that
story is that it doesn’t matter who thinks a student has talent or not, it’s all
about the right path for finding that, to build that confidence.
STAY THIRSTY: If you could rewrite one of your major works, which
one would it be and what would you do to change it?
DU YUN: Why would I want to rewrite? I can edit, but why rewrite? Would
I like to rework on the concept? Yes, absolutely. For instance, I am thinking
about, even for Angel’s Bone, I’m
thinking of different ways of reshowing and representing in many different ways.
But I’m not going to rewrite it. I think that rewriting is a very different way
of approaching it, if I was going to fix it or something. There are a lot of
things, like an ongoing series, yes, but I don’t think of it so much as
rewrite. I do think about it as a catalyst for thinking about something as an
ongoing thinking process.
Links:
Peabody Institute